Game of Thrones TV Book Club: Dissecting Season 5 Premiere convertible filledWelcome
back to the Game of Thrones TV Book Club, a discussion space forThrones
viewers who read the five books (so far) by George RR Martin A Song of
Ice and Fire series. This
week Darren Franich and Hillary Busis dive into season 5 premiere of
the highly anticipated, a scene-setting session that can mark the point
when Thrones TV decisive moves away from ASOIAF. Check
out James Hibberd complete summary of the episode, then go with us into
the narrative boundary of A Feast for Crows (and beyond) to dare. (You know, it'll spoiler for the two books and the show, right?)HILLARY: Welcome back to the TV Book Club, overthinkingit Darren from home!
I want to start where has this season: presented with the story of Lil 'Cersei and Maggy the Frog, a story that is up early in the crow's hard but not really indicated until the second half of the book, when the world the Queen built at their feet is crumbling. The scene that we see in Cersei dream faithfully by TV Thrones, Maggy updated appearance recreated regardless. (George RR Martin Maggy is "short, stocky and warty, Her teeth were with pebble greenish cheeks. Away and her tits hung down to his knees." Benioff and Weiss' Maggy looks Jessa girls in the lead role as Abigail Williams in The Crucible. )
Cersei goes to the witch tries her luck; She said that she would marry Robert Baratheon that we queen until another hot queen (Margaery? Daenerys?) they usurped, and that they three blonde children who also get stylish Gold funeral shrouds shall be. Remains on the show, is the bit about how Cersei life is in the hands of "the valonqar," High Valyrian the end of the "little brother."
The last part Notwithstanding this is the direct translation of A Feast for Crows we see in the premiere and throughout season 5 first four episodes, frankly. (Semi-spoiler alert?) There is also a scene that I know you were not a fan. Why was that? Could it be that in your head Throne is now at its best when it deliberately did not try to emulate Martin's work word-for-word?
DARREN: I welcome you in return of Hillary House Quentyn skeptics, Queen-over-the-wall! I look forward to two months to talk about how this season clearly Greyjoy could've used.
For purely personal reasons and perhaps ridiculous, I get nervous about two things in TV shows true Middle Ages: Prophecies and childhood flashbacks. The former brings bad memories (shows I otherwise loved!) Lost and Battlestar Galactica. The latter trends inexorably to Dick Whitman Bordello Blues Boy. Season 5 opening scene was a childhood flashback prophecy, and I'm not sure it's was completely necessary, but I respect the attempt. Every adult character in A Song of Ice and Fire is haunted by the past, but in A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons GRRM devoted a large part of his great books characters intra Monologuing her past regrets. (In my memory is half of Tyrion's bow in Dance with Dragons inner monologue repeats the phrase "where to go whores?")
Throne does not, inner monologues, but this has flashback (awkwardly) to reposition our perspective on Cersei. And I stand on. This will be Cersei flagship season-Lena Headey Season 5 = Nikola Coster-Waldau Season 3 Season 2 Peter Dinklage = = every scene Charles Dance was ever in the beginning of this season was a triumphant moment for her to be. She is in charge! But kicking things off with this flashback makes arc Greek tragedy. It is as if they know that they will fail a subtle shift of Feast for Crows, where Cersei takes control with bull-in-a-china-shop aggression.
But perhaps we should stop talking about A Feast for Crows. Heck, maybe we need to rethink the whole idea of a TV Book club. For my eyes, the vast majority of the events in "The Wars Come" were mostly or completely new.
Four years have book reader to / predicted / feared / expected-with-stained breath spoke the moment when Game of Thrones would decisively and completely of A Song of Ice and Fire move. Some people think it already happens when they nixed Lady Stone Heart, or if they banned Jeyne Westerling to the countries of the always winter. For me, the singularity Westeros has arrived in this episode, as the spider gave Tyrion Big Pitch for Game of Thrones "final." To be saved from themselves, "he says, in a long speech, much of its spirit from the last scene moves from A Dance with Dragons. What did you think of Thrones "new dynamic duo, Tyrion and Varys? And there were no other significant changes which have jumped on you, for better or worse?
HILLARY: So here's the thing: I know that in some ways, the show has become a separate, independent, mature dragon. (But will not happen in the moment that really marked his departure this week. And that's all I say.) Nevertheless, I find it misleading throne as a company that is "determined and completely" disconnected from the source consider material. Things that are in this season different from the way they happened in 4 and 5 books, to be sure, but almost all of the changes I've seen so far, in the form of excision book stories all come (bye bye, neuron and sniff, Lady Stone Heart!), or the combination of themes and characters that were separate entities in the books. Arianne Martell, for example, will not appear in the series; Ellaria sand will serve as her stand-in.
The point, it seems to be concise rather than change. The series tries to cut inflate and remain relatively concentrated on a stable core of the series regulars, so Thrones may perhaps possibly be dissolved in 7 seasons. I do not Benioff and Weiss seems to be switching things to improve on Martin's work; I think they are just trying to keep this train in motion before the winter comes actually.
Back to the question you actually asked: It is gratifying to see Varys step into the spotlight and take credit for all its string pulling from the get-go, instead of retreating into the shadows until Martin needs to pull him out of a brand Big Ending (as in Dragons). The show of the foreground of the spider encapsulates the largest phonetic differences between the throne and ASOIAF: In both versions Varys applies the title Master of Whispers, but he has never been very quiet on the series. He and show Tyrion are not quite as Hound Show, Arya and well matched, but there are ways, their dynamic mirrors which largely successful pairing before: Varys is the omniscient experts Tyrion is the kind-hearted young cynic knows much less than he thinks he does. I hope we do not get much more banter between the two ... and I also hope that in this version of the story, Tyrion actually gets hit, damn Daenerys.
Speaking: Is it time yet ever-popular skiing question, Does anyone care about Mereen ask? (I also go to the scene of a eunuch is in a brothel, since most delicious, ridiculous, it really Thrones y what the show has ever done call murdered ... until I saw it and realized yup that actually happens in A Dance With Dragons, too.)
DARREN: Good points all around Maestress learned! (In my vague Unitarian version of the faith of the Seven can be septas Maester, too. Oh, do not pretend you do not occasionally have spent long years between books and season design your own liberalized versions vest Rosi religions!)
Martin has always talked about the renegade freedom of the written word-how, after many years of work in the low-budget world of television, he is "A Song of Ice and Fire" as expansive could do as he wanted to be. I suspect that those of us spend, both the book and the TV show this season confront enjoy some hard truths about this size. =
Throne is, by some metrics, the most expensive show ever but you're right to bring up "concision" as the subtext of this season. Personally, I groove on the size of the Crows and Dragons but I also understand how frustrating it is for people who Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister in common to do less than Asha Greyjoy.
So even though I was a bit skeptical, as you of Varys-Tyrion pairing, I totally get the decision to keep the focus on already established characters. So allow me to your opinion, Hillary shock: I care about Mereen! Well, a small part of Mereen. Maybe it's just the rest of Nathalie Emmanuel Buzz in Furious Seven Sandra Bullock play-in-the-Net, but the Missandei romance subplot has (gray) wormed its way into my heart.
The immaculate death scene was a bit goofy-it's not TV, it is Full Frontal: The Series -but I loved the time after that, as Missandei their favorite eunuch asked why an unsullied would visit a brothel. I dig the low stakes severity of their doomed romance anyway-they are like Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson in Remains of the Day, with the exception of hot and repressed.
Here's what I'm not so sure: Everything else is happening in Mereen. The show has accelerated the Daenerys-Daario romance. In Dance With Dragons, seething; in the show, they are basically married colleagues, talk shop after coitus. "A dragon queen with no dragon is not a queen," advises naked Daario. Hubba Hubba? There is a Hall of Fame moment comes for Daenerys- "Take me, take me, FLY!" - And I'm kind of hoping the show will skip that moment, as soon as possible. Or has nothing to do with Daenerys, ever.
Cards on the table: I was not quite sold on this episode, mostly because it felt especially as it was moving all pawns in alignment. This applies to Sansa and Little finger somewhere to definitely do something. (You do not love how, in the off-season, Dark Sansa virtually to become a fan-favorite character?)
But we really need to talk about this great scene that ended the episode. What is Mance dead, right? Dead-dead-dead not Rattle? What do you know to think about what is happening in the north? Stannis is the Snow Alliance, ahem, lighting your fire?
HILLARY: On behalf of the seven, who apparently important in this season than they have on the show's universe have been so far do undefiled viewers actually like vest Rosi religious works, his way? Do they know what septons and septas are? Do they understand what a shame it is that they do not seem to take Septa Lemore, which does not seem like they made it in show the world you -I present with seven final thoughts ?:
1. I am for more Nathalie Emmanuel / Missandei, provided that the show does not need her. The place of the deceased Irri in a strange Dany / maid love scene à la Storm of Swords
2. You are reminding me that despite how much "screen" time Daenerys is in A Dance with Dragons, not a whole lot happens to her until she marries Hizzoner zo Lorax, or whatever the name of that guy , (I know what it actually is, GUYS.) The final Dragons of their history is, in fact, awesome, and I'm with you in the hope that the show manages to get them sooner rather than later. Because otherwise, what Dany do for the next nine episodes-sit around and eat locusts may be poisoned?
3. You will act as if the chess-piece assembly sequence is not a story Game of Thrones tradition, such as The Big thing rooted in the DNA of the show in episode 9 or sex position Happens. I am less bothered by this aspect of the premiere, as you are, above all, because I expect these chess pieces to start screws and murder each other pretty soon.
4. As a semi-professional feminist killjoy, it gives me great pleasure to see how fandom has embraced Darth Sansa during low season GoT. (Also see how much deeper voice seems Sophie Turner in time, which reminded passed between seasons 4 and 5 listening to her speech at the premiere speaks to me the first moment Ron in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets got.) I can say without hesitation that Sansa storyline is the one I suggest just any season 5 was to say the most interesting, partly because we basically lost the end of the journey of her book itself and partly because I fascinated by the psychosexual Darth Sansa / Little dynamically. And after I as much as I ... well, let's just say it will be a very good season for Sansa and Cersei.
5. The Wall stuff and not let me hm-cold, although I think Mance death had much less influence on the show, as they should have. (.. Reminder: Mance has a whopping five of Thrones "41 episodes have appeared since, it's hard to care about his fate much) At first I was not sure it was really warm dead; then I read Interview James Hibberd with Ciaran Hinds, which removes all doubt. But the true death bothers me less than Catelyn. If it is necessary for future storylines can Benioff and Weiss probably find a way to other, more established characters have the same role that Mance plays in the Books perform; it has never been invested in him as a character as GRRM is.
6. BRIENNNNE. Care to about what the show can have in store for them, considering the Brienne plot is already completely unknown territory to speculate?
7. Did you miss Arya in this episode? I'm actually surprised at how little I noticed their absence.
DARREN: You are absolutely right that loving Thrones means to love the gradual movement of the beautiful F-bomb-dropping chess pieces. And talking to the throne Uber-Maester Hibberd has me very excited about where to go this season. (Spikes!) But Brienne could pawn, I am most love. I feel like it is now someone who is not really fixed the show Wildcard one of the various forces that plague currently Westeros. I hope somehow they will Thrones "version Yojimbo, these wandering ronin who do not really believe anything else in. (Be a good knight Tough if you keep losing your master.)
I've missed you badly Arya and the Hound; I feel like you back and forth as a central part of the show. But I think it was wise move just a bit for the series to its storyline. Arya is about to learn, what new setting, new 'tude on a complete character restart, NEW CLOTHES. We propose the area where the books begin take too long to move from the original Stark family focus, and the show is not even trying with Bran this season. Assuming they follow about the books' trajectory, Arya is so pretty with are in their own origin story-A Portrait of the Assassin as a young ninja. Do I have to give that time to breathe!
I want to start where has this season: presented with the story of Lil 'Cersei and Maggy the Frog, a story that is up early in the crow's hard but not really indicated until the second half of the book, when the world the Queen built at their feet is crumbling. The scene that we see in Cersei dream faithfully by TV Thrones, Maggy updated appearance recreated regardless. (George RR Martin Maggy is "short, stocky and warty, Her teeth were with pebble greenish cheeks. Away and her tits hung down to his knees." Benioff and Weiss' Maggy looks Jessa girls in the lead role as Abigail Williams in The Crucible. )
Cersei goes to the witch tries her luck; She said that she would marry Robert Baratheon that we queen until another hot queen (Margaery? Daenerys?) they usurped, and that they three blonde children who also get stylish Gold funeral shrouds shall be. Remains on the show, is the bit about how Cersei life is in the hands of "the valonqar," High Valyrian the end of the "little brother."
The last part Notwithstanding this is the direct translation of A Feast for Crows we see in the premiere and throughout season 5 first four episodes, frankly. (Semi-spoiler alert?) There is also a scene that I know you were not a fan. Why was that? Could it be that in your head Throne is now at its best when it deliberately did not try to emulate Martin's work word-for-word?
DARREN: I welcome you in return of Hillary House Quentyn skeptics, Queen-over-the-wall! I look forward to two months to talk about how this season clearly Greyjoy could've used.
For purely personal reasons and perhaps ridiculous, I get nervous about two things in TV shows true Middle Ages: Prophecies and childhood flashbacks. The former brings bad memories (shows I otherwise loved!) Lost and Battlestar Galactica. The latter trends inexorably to Dick Whitman Bordello Blues Boy. Season 5 opening scene was a childhood flashback prophecy, and I'm not sure it's was completely necessary, but I respect the attempt. Every adult character in A Song of Ice and Fire is haunted by the past, but in A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons GRRM devoted a large part of his great books characters intra Monologuing her past regrets. (In my memory is half of Tyrion's bow in Dance with Dragons inner monologue repeats the phrase "where to go whores?")
Throne does not, inner monologues, but this has flashback (awkwardly) to reposition our perspective on Cersei. And I stand on. This will be Cersei flagship season-Lena Headey Season 5 = Nikola Coster-Waldau Season 3 Season 2 Peter Dinklage = = every scene Charles Dance was ever in the beginning of this season was a triumphant moment for her to be. She is in charge! But kicking things off with this flashback makes arc Greek tragedy. It is as if they know that they will fail a subtle shift of Feast for Crows, where Cersei takes control with bull-in-a-china-shop aggression.
But perhaps we should stop talking about A Feast for Crows. Heck, maybe we need to rethink the whole idea of a TV Book club. For my eyes, the vast majority of the events in "The Wars Come" were mostly or completely new.
Four years have book reader to / predicted / feared / expected-with-stained breath spoke the moment when Game of Thrones would decisively and completely of A Song of Ice and Fire move. Some people think it already happens when they nixed Lady Stone Heart, or if they banned Jeyne Westerling to the countries of the always winter. For me, the singularity Westeros has arrived in this episode, as the spider gave Tyrion Big Pitch for Game of Thrones "final." To be saved from themselves, "he says, in a long speech, much of its spirit from the last scene moves from A Dance with Dragons. What did you think of Thrones "new dynamic duo, Tyrion and Varys? And there were no other significant changes which have jumped on you, for better or worse?
HILLARY: So here's the thing: I know that in some ways, the show has become a separate, independent, mature dragon. (But will not happen in the moment that really marked his departure this week. And that's all I say.) Nevertheless, I find it misleading throne as a company that is "determined and completely" disconnected from the source consider material. Things that are in this season different from the way they happened in 4 and 5 books, to be sure, but almost all of the changes I've seen so far, in the form of excision book stories all come (bye bye, neuron and sniff, Lady Stone Heart!), or the combination of themes and characters that were separate entities in the books. Arianne Martell, for example, will not appear in the series; Ellaria sand will serve as her stand-in.
The point, it seems to be concise rather than change. The series tries to cut inflate and remain relatively concentrated on a stable core of the series regulars, so Thrones may perhaps possibly be dissolved in 7 seasons. I do not Benioff and Weiss seems to be switching things to improve on Martin's work; I think they are just trying to keep this train in motion before the winter comes actually.
Back to the question you actually asked: It is gratifying to see Varys step into the spotlight and take credit for all its string pulling from the get-go, instead of retreating into the shadows until Martin needs to pull him out of a brand Big Ending (as in Dragons). The show of the foreground of the spider encapsulates the largest phonetic differences between the throne and ASOIAF: In both versions Varys applies the title Master of Whispers, but he has never been very quiet on the series. He and show Tyrion are not quite as Hound Show, Arya and well matched, but there are ways, their dynamic mirrors which largely successful pairing before: Varys is the omniscient experts Tyrion is the kind-hearted young cynic knows much less than he thinks he does. I hope we do not get much more banter between the two ... and I also hope that in this version of the story, Tyrion actually gets hit, damn Daenerys.
Speaking: Is it time yet ever-popular skiing question, Does anyone care about Mereen ask? (I also go to the scene of a eunuch is in a brothel, since most delicious, ridiculous, it really Thrones y what the show has ever done call murdered ... until I saw it and realized yup that actually happens in A Dance With Dragons, too.)
DARREN: Good points all around Maestress learned! (In my vague Unitarian version of the faith of the Seven can be septas Maester, too. Oh, do not pretend you do not occasionally have spent long years between books and season design your own liberalized versions vest Rosi religions!)
Martin has always talked about the renegade freedom of the written word-how, after many years of work in the low-budget world of television, he is "A Song of Ice and Fire" as expansive could do as he wanted to be. I suspect that those of us spend, both the book and the TV show this season confront enjoy some hard truths about this size. =
Throne is, by some metrics, the most expensive show ever but you're right to bring up "concision" as the subtext of this season. Personally, I groove on the size of the Crows and Dragons but I also understand how frustrating it is for people who Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister in common to do less than Asha Greyjoy.
So even though I was a bit skeptical, as you of Varys-Tyrion pairing, I totally get the decision to keep the focus on already established characters. So allow me to your opinion, Hillary shock: I care about Mereen! Well, a small part of Mereen. Maybe it's just the rest of Nathalie Emmanuel Buzz in Furious Seven Sandra Bullock play-in-the-Net, but the Missandei romance subplot has (gray) wormed its way into my heart.
The immaculate death scene was a bit goofy-it's not TV, it is Full Frontal: The Series -but I loved the time after that, as Missandei their favorite eunuch asked why an unsullied would visit a brothel. I dig the low stakes severity of their doomed romance anyway-they are like Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson in Remains of the Day, with the exception of hot and repressed.
Here's what I'm not so sure: Everything else is happening in Mereen. The show has accelerated the Daenerys-Daario romance. In Dance With Dragons, seething; in the show, they are basically married colleagues, talk shop after coitus. "A dragon queen with no dragon is not a queen," advises naked Daario. Hubba Hubba? There is a Hall of Fame moment comes for Daenerys- "Take me, take me, FLY!" - And I'm kind of hoping the show will skip that moment, as soon as possible. Or has nothing to do with Daenerys, ever.
Cards on the table: I was not quite sold on this episode, mostly because it felt especially as it was moving all pawns in alignment. This applies to Sansa and Little finger somewhere to definitely do something. (You do not love how, in the off-season, Dark Sansa virtually to become a fan-favorite character?)
But we really need to talk about this great scene that ended the episode. What is Mance dead, right? Dead-dead-dead not Rattle? What do you know to think about what is happening in the north? Stannis is the Snow Alliance, ahem, lighting your fire?
HILLARY: On behalf of the seven, who apparently important in this season than they have on the show's universe have been so far do undefiled viewers actually like vest Rosi religious works, his way? Do they know what septons and septas are? Do they understand what a shame it is that they do not seem to take Septa Lemore, which does not seem like they made it in show the world you -I present with seven final thoughts ?:
1. I am for more Nathalie Emmanuel / Missandei, provided that the show does not need her. The place of the deceased Irri in a strange Dany / maid love scene à la Storm of Swords
2. You are reminding me that despite how much "screen" time Daenerys is in A Dance with Dragons, not a whole lot happens to her until she marries Hizzoner zo Lorax, or whatever the name of that guy , (I know what it actually is, GUYS.) The final Dragons of their history is, in fact, awesome, and I'm with you in the hope that the show manages to get them sooner rather than later. Because otherwise, what Dany do for the next nine episodes-sit around and eat locusts may be poisoned?
3. You will act as if the chess-piece assembly sequence is not a story Game of Thrones tradition, such as The Big thing rooted in the DNA of the show in episode 9 or sex position Happens. I am less bothered by this aspect of the premiere, as you are, above all, because I expect these chess pieces to start screws and murder each other pretty soon.
4. As a semi-professional feminist killjoy, it gives me great pleasure to see how fandom has embraced Darth Sansa during low season GoT. (Also see how much deeper voice seems Sophie Turner in time, which reminded passed between seasons 4 and 5 listening to her speech at the premiere speaks to me the first moment Ron in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets got.) I can say without hesitation that Sansa storyline is the one I suggest just any season 5 was to say the most interesting, partly because we basically lost the end of the journey of her book itself and partly because I fascinated by the psychosexual Darth Sansa / Little dynamically. And after I as much as I ... well, let's just say it will be a very good season for Sansa and Cersei.
5. The Wall stuff and not let me hm-cold, although I think Mance death had much less influence on the show, as they should have. (.. Reminder: Mance has a whopping five of Thrones "41 episodes have appeared since, it's hard to care about his fate much) At first I was not sure it was really warm dead; then I read Interview James Hibberd with Ciaran Hinds, which removes all doubt. But the true death bothers me less than Catelyn. If it is necessary for future storylines can Benioff and Weiss probably find a way to other, more established characters have the same role that Mance plays in the Books perform; it has never been invested in him as a character as GRRM is.
6. BRIENNNNE. Care to about what the show can have in store for them, considering the Brienne plot is already completely unknown territory to speculate?
7. Did you miss Arya in this episode? I'm actually surprised at how little I noticed their absence.
DARREN: You are absolutely right that loving Thrones means to love the gradual movement of the beautiful F-bomb-dropping chess pieces. And talking to the throne Uber-Maester Hibberd has me very excited about where to go this season. (Spikes!) But Brienne could pawn, I am most love. I feel like it is now someone who is not really fixed the show Wildcard one of the various forces that plague currently Westeros. I hope somehow they will Thrones "version Yojimbo, these wandering ronin who do not really believe anything else in. (Be a good knight Tough if you keep losing your master.)
I've missed you badly Arya and the Hound; I feel like you back and forth as a central part of the show. But I think it was wise move just a bit for the series to its storyline. Arya is about to learn, what new setting, new 'tude on a complete character restart, NEW CLOTHES. We propose the area where the books begin take too long to move from the original Stark family focus, and the show is not even trying with Bran this season. Assuming they follow about the books' trajectory, Arya is so pretty with are in their own origin story-A Portrait of the Assassin as a young ninja. Do I have to give that time to breathe!